JRE2219: Donald Trump

[wincel]

The United States has a 1.15T trade deficit per year. The next 12 countries with the highest trade added together would still be a fraction of the United States trade deficit. What changed low tariff rates became standard to benefit outsourced companies at the expense of the American people:

Yeah but none of that explains how to make US made goods affordable.

[ordoabchao]

Yeah but none of that explains how to make US made goods affordable.

Once again. Americans could afford to pay more for US products if they didn't have federal income tax. It was a 2 part equation and you are only bringing up half of it. You are correct that US products would never be as cheap as China.

[wincel]

Once again. Americans could afford to pay more for US products if they didn't have federal income tax. It was a 2 part equation and you are only bringing up half of it. You are correct that US products would never be as cheap as China.

Ok but with no federal income tax,now all the services the govt provides would have to be privatized and run for profit. That would eat into your money too. And you just said it will never be as cheap. So we are taking an economic hit and cutting the government for what exactly?

[ordoabchao]

Ok but with no federal income tax,now all the services the govt provides would have to be privatized and run for profit. That would eat into your money too. And you just said it will never be as cheap. So we are taking an economic hit and cutting the government for what exactly?

What's the economic hit? Trump seems to believe that he would be able to bring many of the manufacturing jobs back to the US and or bring in a ton of money from tariffs which would help run the government. I agree that if all of those jobs came back to the US and there was no money being brought in from tariffs then I don't know how the Federal govt would get their funding.
I do know that many many Americans think that the federal govt needs their spending cut anyways so that would be considered a win for most. IE sending billions to foreign countries for war etc.

[DT928]

Yeah but none of that explains how to make US made goods affordable.

Since low tariffs have been implemented. CEO and upper management pay have exploded compared to the typical worker. Now it takes nearly 340 workers to equal the pay of a CEO. Before the low tariff trend It took about 40 workers to equal the pay of the typical CEO. Simply reverse this trend:

CEO pay has skyrocketed 1,460% since 1978CEOs were paid 399 times as much as a typical worker in 2021

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/

[wincel]

What's the economic hit? Trump seems to believe that he would be able to bring many of the manufacturing jobs back to the US and or bring in a ton of money from tariffs which would help run the government. I agree that if all of those jobs came back to the US and there was no money being brought in from tariffs then I don't know how the Federal govt would get their funding.
I do know that many many Americans think that the federal govt needs their spending cut anyways so that would be considered a win for most. IE sending billions to foreign countries for war etc.

Well govt spending is also a big chunk of GDP. And now, we would be doing something deliberately inefficient and paying the premium for domestic production. So, yeah this would be expected to harm our economy. What is the upside exactly? We save some noncompetitive businesses?

[wincel]

Since low tariffs have been implemented. CEO and upper management pay have exploded compared to the typical worker. Now it takes nearly 340 workers to equal the pay of a CEO. Before the low tariff trend It took about 40 workers to equal the pay of the typical CEO. Simply reverse this trend:

Correlation is not causation. Other factors dominate these results.

[DT928]

Correlation is not causation. Other factors dominate these results.

Yet you didn't bother to cite any of these dominating factors. I wonder why?

[AWillis]

love it when americans come together

trump 2024

srs

[wincel]

Yet you didn't bother to cite any of these dominating factors. I wonder why?

That's a separate discussion. There's a huge list of reasons why CEO and executive pay has risen while real worker purchasing power has declined. But if you are curious, Das Kapital has the answer. It was an inevitable consequence of our profit driven system. But if you do not believe the Marxists, here is the same argument from mainstream economists:

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/

Also, this trend has emerged globally, but not as severely as in America. That shows it is not due to any specific national policy on our part, but the system more broadly. American tariff policy will have little effect on this trend.

[AWillis]

trump time

MAGAs

[DT928]

That's a separate discussion. There's a huge list of reasons why CEO and executive pay has risen while real worker purchasing power has declined. But if you are curious, Das Kapital has the answer. It was an inevitable consequence of our profit driven system. But if you do not believe the Marxists, here is the same argument from mainstream economists:

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/

Also, this trend has emerged globally, but not as severely as in America. That shows it is not due to any specific national policy on our part, but the system more broadly. American tariff policy will have little effect on this trend.

Pick one:
*It's a severe trend in America compared to globally
*It's not due to any specific national policy

[wincel]

Pick one:
*It's a severe trend in America compared to globally
*It's not due to any specific national policy

Both are true. America has fewer regulations and tax mechanisms. The article explains what policy recommendations would reduce the gap. America has been most hesitant to implement these changes. However, the trend is intrinsic to the very nature of capitalism. It can only be somewhat managed with our system, not rectified.

In fact, the beneficiaries of your tariff proposal would simply be the ceos of domestic companies. It would simply be a reallocation of capital to profit them at the expense of the rest of the economy overall.

In other words, Trump is just trying to make his CEO friends who cannot compete on the world stage richer, and we will all foot the bill.

[DT928]

Both are true. America has fewer regulations and tax mechanisms. The article explains what policy recommendations would reduce the gap. America has been most hesitant to implement these changes. However, the trend is intrinsic to the very nature of capitalism. It can only be somewhat managed with our system, not rectified.

In fact, the beneficiaries of your tariff proposal would simply be the ceos of domestic companies. It would simply be a reallocation of capital to profit them at the expense of the rest of the economy overall.

In other words, Trump is just trying to make his CEO friends who cannot compete on the world stage richer, and we will all foot the bill.

America has few regulations? That's not true. The United States is the 20th most regulated country in the world ranked above France and Italy:

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/wb_regulatory_quality/

[wincel]

America has few regulations? That's not true. The United States is the 20th most regulated country in the world ranked above France and Italy:
https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/ran...atory_quality/

Of the appropriate type needed to reduce this inequality.

Your fallacy is overgeneralization.

[JugHead96]

Of the appropriate type needed to reduce this inequality.

Your fallacy is overgeneralization.

Why do you think China is so great if their workers get such shit pay and no worker rights/ regulations etc? Are you not for the workers?

[AWillis]

remember Donald John Trump took a bullet for you, for democracy, for liberty, for freedom

all we ask is for you to be loyal to your country

vote vote vote for Trump

fight fight fight

save this country, save this glorious republic

god bless you, god bless America

[wincel]

Why do you think China is so great if their workers get such shit pay and no worker rights/ regulations etc? Are you not for the workers?

They have some worker rights. They are improving. The key is they have risen from poverty without imperialism. They did not have to rape and plunder other countries. Within 4 decades, China will be the best place to live on Earth. The point is to have a sustainable model distinct from western imperialism.

China's dominance will bring an end to the neofeudalism of the last 4 centuries. My goal is to see humanity attain a sustainable path to prosperity and development for the entire species -- one that doesn't culminate in nuclear war.

[wincel]

remember Donald John Trump took a bullet for you, for democracy, for liberty, for freedom

all we ask is for you to be loyal to your country

vote vote vote for Trump

fight fight fight

save this country, save this glorious republic

god bless you, god bless America

Who is "we"? You told us you aren't American. I appreciate the dicksucking, but why don't you focus on your own counfry's politics?

[DT928]

Of the appropriate type needed to reduce this inequality.

Your fallacy is overgeneralization.

Your claim failed. Deal with it.

[AWillis]

he gladly stands up and there ain't no doubt he loves this land. defends our land.

he is proud to be an american, his name is Donald John Trump.

god bless the U S A

[LargePeter]

Great. How is he gonna make consumer goods affordable when American labor is so much more expensive? Tariffs might bring some jobs back initially, but will make everything ridiculously expensive.

American labour is so expensive because you moronic leftards support fuckstains like Gavin Newsome who implemented a ridiculous minimum wage for McDonalds workers, which forced McDonalds to further automate their ordering processes

Capitalism always wins - most efficient way of satisfying demand based on supply.

Not everyone is entitled to everything, nor should they be.

[Pterodactyl314]

Did they talk about the alleged assassination attempt?

[wincel]

American labour is so expensive because you moronic leftards support fuckstains like Gavin Newsome who implemented a ridiculous minimum wage for McDonalds workers, which forced McDonalds to further automate their ordering processes

Capitalism always wins - most efficient way of satisfying demand based on supply.

Not everyone is entitled to everything, nor should they be.

Do you think firms are barely making profit and had to raise prices simply to keep with min wage?

[LargePeter]

Do you think firms are barely making profit and had to raise prices simply to keep with min wage?

Firms have a responsibility to their shareholders - if their profits drop because of increased labour costs, they either reduce their payrolls or increase prices to maintain profitability.

Take an economics class, rather than relying on some fantasy text written by an actual fascist. You're already an expert on all things science, expand your horizons a little Professor Google It.

[wincel]

Firms have a responsibility to their shareholders - if their profits drop because of increased labour costs, they either reduce their payrolls or increase prices to maintain profitability.

Take an economics class, rather than relying on some fantasy text written by an actual fascist. You're already an expert on all things science, expand your horizons a little Professor Google It.

Did you notice how states with low min wages still saw large price increases? Again, do you think these firms are breaking the bank to fund these workers? Do you think this is why American labor is so expensive? Do you think by slashing regulations and using tariffs, you can make American low skill manufacturing cheaper than China?

I have taken several economics courses and econometrics. I am asking how you plan to save American manufacturing.

As an Australian.

[Woofienugget]

remember Donald John Trump took a bullet for you, for democracy, for liberty, for freedom

Lol at thinking Trump took a bullet.

[zere0wn]

Lol at thinking Trump took a bullet.

what's the most plausible theory on how it was staged?

[wincel]

what's the most plausible theory on how it was staged?

It wasn't staged. It just grazed his ear.

[LargePeter]

Did you notice how states with low min wages still saw large price increases? Again, do you think these firms are breaking the bank to fund these workers? Do you think this is why American labor is so expensive? Do you think by slashing regulations and using tariffs, you can make American low skill manufacturing cheaper than China?

I have taken several economics courses and econometrics. I am asking how you plan to save American manufacturing.

As an Australian.

Supply and demand. Cost of inputs. Costs of goods being purchased to on-sell.

No way of guaranteeing using tariffs will make American manufacturing cheaper, that depends on where the inputs for production are sourced and how well manufacturing companies are allowed to innovate without offending eco terrorists - but slashing regulations will make it easier to reduce the disruptive elements of workforces and go a step toward ensuring fair work equals fair pay - not being hampered by entitled attitudes, cancel culture and cunts protesting pronouns.

I seriously doubt you've studied anything at all, you're like Bodhy - very good at googling and allowing confirmation bias to cloud your judgment.

[zere0wn]

im not a pro trump person but he comes across really well in this. he says a lot of the things that are indicative of the principles you want in a president.

for example the part about the general saying it's cheaper to leave the equipment in afghanistan - he correctly calls that guy an idiot. A lot of midwits would be like "well the general is correct it would be x million cheaper blah blah" - but someone who is actually smart would think of the 2nd and 3rd order consequences from that point. It's appalling that we have a general who would say leave our equipment in Afghanistan because it's cheaper. that guy should be a grunt on the front lines if that's how smart he is.

another example - he was talking about being friends with Kim jong un and how he was getting roasted for it, but he said it's actually good to be friends with him. that's so spot on - why do we have to be enemies with north Korea and Russia? we should be friends if it's feasible.

also he keeps calling Kamala low IQ, and I'm sorry but that's obviously correct. she comes across as an idiot. he doesn't call everyone low IQ, so it's not just a generic insult. he's correctly assessing a person based on limited interaction.

[ordoabchao]

Well govt spending is also a big chunk of GDP. And now, we would be doing something deliberately inefficient and paying the premium for domestic production. So, yeah this would be expected to harm our economy. What is the upside exactly? We save some noncompetitive businesses?

In my opinion the Federal Govt fails at most things horribly. I, along with many others, would be more than happy to extremely reduce govt spending. The upside of paying a premium for domestic production is that there are more jobs in the USA and we are less reliant on the global economy. More jobs and more people working in the US should mean less spending on social welfare etc.

To be fair. I don't think he will ever cut federal taxes completely. It is more of an idea being floated around. Even in the interview he talked about how it might be possible, but then went on to say he really wants to lower taxes to 21% and then 15% for businesses that make their product in the USA. I think this is more likely and it sounds much better to me than raising taxes. But once again I am of the mind set that our govt does an absolutely terrible job with current tax dollars.

[wincel]

In my opinion the Federal Govt fails at most things horribly. I, along with many others, would be more than happy to extremely reduce govt spending. The upside of paying a premium for domestic production is that there are more jobs in the USA and we are less reliant on the global economy. More jobs and more people working in the US should mean less spending on social welfare etc.

To be fair. I don't think he will ever cut federal taxes completely. It is more of an idea being floated around. Even in the interview he talked about how it might be possible, but then went on to say he really wants to lower taxes to 21% and then 15% for businesses that make their product in the USA. I think this is more likely and it sounds much better to me than raising taxes. But once again I am of the mind set that our govt does an absolutely terrible job with current tax dollars.

Still not seeing how this doesn't fuck our GDP.

[wincel]

Supply and demand. Cost of inputs. Costs of goods being purchased to on-sell.

No way of guaranteeing using tariffs will make American manufacturing cheaper, that depends on where the inputs for production are sourced and how well manufacturing companies are allowed to innovate without offending eco terrorists - but slashing regulations will make it easier to reduce the disruptive elements of workforces and go a step toward ensuring fair work equals fair pay - not being hampered by entitled attitudes, cancel culture and cunts protesting pronouns.

I seriously doubt you've studied anything at all, you're like Bodhy - very good at googling and allowing confirmation bias to cloud your judgment.

So if you took econ, you know how GDP is computed. You said yourself you don't think America can be competitive with China in manufacturing even with these tariffs. If you took econ, you know tariffs lead to a kind of economic rent paid to domestic manufacturers. You see that you'd need to reduce federal government spending as well if taxes are cut. So far, you've hit the consumption and government speding. How about how when the GDP declines, it screws up the investment as well? You can't even really export the manufactured product since it is not competitive in price.

Do you see the problem now? This is all classic econ. Multiple mainstream economists have said Trump's plans will torpedo our economy. You can see why.

You can't explain how, even if he brings jobs back, he will keep prices low enough to not absolutely tank the economy. It's not enough to just bring manufacturing back. It has to be affordable as a product. Also, the kind of slashing of regulations you are wanting to see would require getting rid of almost all labor rights to be remotely competitive, and we'd STILL lose because of labor supply.

Surely you understand the president doesn't have the power to do that, right? I get that you are some kind of paid foreigner who doesn't actually understand how America works. (We spell it "labor", not "labour".) But we have state employment regulations as well as federal ones.

What is cool though is no matter how much you insult me or how ridiculous you act,

1) you can't answer this basic question
2) you can't vote and have no say in our politics

Trump has been asked my question several times. He always refuses to answer it and dodges. This tells me he is just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. He is just hoping to avoid prison. He has no plan to save America. It's a cult.